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Forum:Wind element, Windblight, Whip weapon
Hi, I've read the MHO manga and thinks that they should add in the Whip weapon along with the wind element. The Whip: -Have the longest range in the melee weapons category. -Have faster attack rate as compared to LS but slower as compared to SnS. -Have med attack power(300(low rank)-975(G rank)) -Loses sharpness faster than other melee weapon. -Usually have positive affinity(5 more affinity than other melee weapons) *Lets say the naruga LS have 50%affinity, the Whip will have 55%affinity. -will autocoil itself after a strike unless its a combo and after the final strike it will autocoil itself. *After executing an attack and leaving your character like that, he will go into a ready to execute an attack "mode" *Much like a tongue of a chameleon. -when unsheath, have the same speed as when the weapon is sheath. Wind element: Is similar to other elements in which it gives elemental damage. You can craft wind-elemented weapons from Naruga, Yama, Kushala, Amatsu, Nono and Kamu(Possibly more) The wind element does not push other players back and does not cause windblight on other players. It's like other elements. The wind element may be illogical but you also have got to accept the fact that the whole MHU is illogical. There is totally no such thing as water, ice and dragon element coming out of a sword in real life. HOW do you make ice come out of a sword? The windblight will be a new status effect. It makes your defense drop. The remedy is to take an armor seed(or maybe something else.) Pls comment and criticise. 01:17, January 1, 2011 (UTC) --> For the sake of your knowledge, ice does not actually come out of the blade. It is more like an extreme chilling effect that does damage to the tissues of the victim by slowing down the vibration of the atoms and, in turn, slowing down the functions of the body part until it no longer is able to work with the slow vibration of the particles. TL;DR: The ice coming out is just visual. Another thing, your idea has been suggested by at least 3000 people already. We've already told them how illogical and hard to implement these would be, as well as the rarity of wind-possessing creatures. Nargacuga doesn't even use wind, he prefers physical attacks like tail whips and wing attacks (LOL Pokemon Reference). I think the addition of a new attribute is redundant, and it will unbalance the game severely. TL;DR of the whole thing: NO MAN Chinese Stickman 03:02, January 1, 2011 (UTC) I don't even know how many people suggested this, but what good would a whip do? Whip is for torturing, not killing.Otizon 04:37, January 1, 2011 (UTC) I think the whip should be rename crush-whip. The tip of the weapon does the most damage. The weapon gives a new style in which you can kill a monster with less worry of getting hit by the monster too often. The weapon's range will be 3ft longer than the LS. The weapon deals cutting dmg except for the superpound which does a little impact damage.@Chinese Stickman, Want to talk illogical? Well I can tell you that almost everything in MHU is illogical. An ice weapon that is made from ice crystals can freeze atom? In a Volcano? In the desert? Where the temperature would probably have melted the weapon itself? @Otizom, Wouldn't you like to torture those monsters? Whips can also kill you know. Imagine yourself tied and someone whip your neck with a chain. Wouldn't you die? Anyway, back to the topic. You didn't even discussed on the topic. Instead, you say how illogical it is. You are suppose to help improve on this idea.Nvm that. Below are the controls for the crush-whip The R button will make the Crush-whip extend 3ft longer.(A bar needs to feel up before this mode is possible though.) In this mode, the whip will glow. The bar will begin to deplete slowly. The Tri+Cir button will make the hunter whip an X in front of it. The Tri button makes the hunter to whip straight(like a poke attack of the lance.) Pressing Tri again will make the hunter whip straight but higher. The third time will be the highest. The Combo is unlimited. The Cir button makes the hunter do a Sideway slash(much like the attack of the hunting horn.)Combo is unlimited. Pressing the Tri+Cir thrice will end the combo with a superpound. Pls Comment and Criticise. 06:10, January 1, 2011 (UTC) --> @Anon's rebuttal: Yes. They're called Ice CRYSTALS because they're not regular ice. They're ice that DOESN'T melt at room temperature. And it doesn't freeze the atoms, it SLOWS it down. We're talking science here. And the whip will absolutely conflict with the purpose of lances, aside from the fact that lances have an additional shield. I mean, look at the range. 3 feet longer than a LS? You're talking about 2m away from you, longer than what a lance normally reaches, about 1.7m. You should abandon your idea altogether: It's purposeless, and it will not be implemented. -Stickman Dude, the lance have a shield. The whip doesn't. Right now, I'm wondering why the ice crystal do not melt in the volcano where the temperature is extremely hot. The lance can charge. The whip cannot. Artupmiz 06:56, January 1, 2011 (UTC) The whip would probably be faster than a lance and would have a wider attack range, too...Cobalt32 16:07, January 1, 2011 (UTC)Cobalt32 @Purpel: There already are monsters that use wind in their attacks, both defensively and offensively. Officially declaring wind an element wouldn't encourage more wind monsters, it would just make a set of resistances and weaknesses for something that was already there and didn't have them before. Personally, I think the way wind works now is fine: inflicting raw damage that you can't really have a particular resistance or weakness to. I said this in the other article, but I still think having weapons that can do that would be interesting...Cobalt32 18:50, January 1, 2011 (UTC)Cobalt32 How about a new effect for wind and water blight? Waterblight: Same effect plus weakness increase to wind. Windblight: Doesn't cause defense decrement. instead, makes the hunter more susptiable(did I spell it right?) to other blights and stacked with waterblight could more then triple the weakness to water. For example, I bet if you splash a big bucket of water of black gravios, then dry off with water, it would probably crack the black gravios' rock hide(it doesn't take off the rock making an opening on its belly area, but the rock on the gravios would be loose and cracked, making its body weak to attacks, not just belly) 00:02, January 2, 2011 (UTC) Rindoroki But the problem is that YOUR skin doesn't crack when you dump a bucket of water on you then get blow-dryed. Chinese Stickman 00:41, January 2, 2011 (UTC) I didn't say it would crack our skins, it would make cracks rock hides like black gravios. 03:23, January 2, 2011 (UTC) Rindoroki Dang it, I had just typed a 2-paragraph suggestion for making Earth and Wind "Sub-elements" (makes a single total for damage rather than distributing it over normal and element values, with the effects of the latter varying due to resistances, but in exchange, has other special effects, like Earth sapping stamina or stunning, or Wind having increased cutting power), but then Riki made his post and I lost it due to an edit conflict, and I DID NOT want to re-type the whole thing. Why couldn't I just copy-paste it after Riki's post? WHY????Cobalt32 03:43, January 2, 2011 (UTC)Cobalt32 I'm really sorry, but this happens to me alot too, so I always copy paste my ideas. 03:56, January 2, 2011 (UTC) Rindoroki @Rindo: Yes, but we're talking about blights here, and blights only occur to hunters (for now at least). -Stickman @Riki: but it doesn't let me copy or paste to the edit...Cobalt32 03:33, January 3, 2011 (UTC)Cobalt32 Why not try writing that 2 paragraph suggestion for making earth and winb "sub-elements"? I think the weapon tip does the most dmg thing is actually an excellent idea. It will make players want to keep as far as possible from the monster while inflicting dmg. I would definitely use this weapon to hunt Plessy(if it made its way to MHF3G. ) Some negative feedbacks would be that the weapon could be overpowered and might replace the LS. The reason is that its range is longer than the LS. So, to make this weapon acceptable in the MH universe, The weapon could have the range of the LS and will extend 5ft longer when pressing the R button. The Circle button attack would be slower . Only the Triangle + Circle button will be the same speed as the LS Spirit Combo. The Triangle button attack could be the fastest attack of the Crush-Whip but the interval time between attacks will be slower as compared to the LS. Thats my idea. Someone plz help improve from here. Artupmiz 05:48, January 3, 2011 (UTC) Once again though, the complexity of this argument is why it was never developed into MH to begin with. MH is a ruthlessly mechanically efficient game, glazed and sweetened by flavor with choice resulting on a strong scale of modularity. When you take the flavor from Wind and Earth elements, and any kind of blight they produce, they are over complexity where there is already a happy balance. Elements are a MODIFIER, just like sharpness. The modifier can increase or decrease the damage dealt to the player, and increase the damage dealt to a monster, but not decrease it. This means that the game balances elemental attack as a form of excess DOT or DPH by making it optional and simple. I think this is the root of why this argument is weak. Then again, take the concept of more diverse status afflictions. This is an area of the game, which CAN be comfortably complicated because it has to do with the environment and acquired information from different monster battles, not core modifiers which effect EVERY battle. This is also what bugs me about the concept of "sub-elements", it has no mechanical usefulness and creates excess complication for every event. Or, if you need an example of this effect, give every monster Plesioth's hip check, so it must become a universal threat to the player (as if Rathian had enough stun frames in Tri). Sure, this would accomplish making approaching monsters more challenging, but people avoid Plesioth just BECAUSE of how annoying that form of challenge is. Mechanical diversity should apply to situational change, not the uniformity that universal mechanics need. -Wynn Ok, here's as short a summary of sub-element I can give: With normal element weapons, you have the weapon's raw damage, plus an element damage that can be increased or decreased depending on the monster's resistance to it. With sub elements, there's no element value per se, the weapon's raw damage would just be equivalent to the total of a similar elemental weapon's raw and elemental damage, and would jus have the name of the sub-element where the element damage would be. (i.e. normal: 490 raw, 250 fire. sub: 740 raw, "wind"). This means monsters can't be particularly weak or strong against sub-elements, but in exchange, the sub-element adds some kind of extra effect, for example, Earth draining stamina/ having a higher chance of stunning, or Wind having more cutting power, or something. This wouldn't change how monsters use them or how they affect Hunters (no new resistances, it's still just raw damage), it only matters with hunter weapons.Cobalt32 03:56, January 4, 2011 (UTC)Cobalt32 The reason that wouldn't be mechanically sound is because status inducing weaponry already exists, it's trade-off is almost always a lower raw damage or a less reliable modifier (my handle is a Paralykeet, a hammer which trades the raw force of others for the ability to inflict Paralysis ontop of it's stamina and KO damaging capabilities). The other consequence is the ruin of modular weapons (such as the High Chief's Greatsword and Ravager series) by obtaining their damage output with status inflicting weapons (forming a form of linearity which made MHF2 undesirable in later stages of the game). What makes MH fun is the culminate modular mechanics, and anything which endangers their seamless performance, inhibits the game at it's root. It isn't that the ideas presented are "bad", it is that they are mechanically unsound. Say for example you take the song "Baker Street" by Gerry Rafferty, and speed up the saxophone riff after the first measure... It simply wouldn't sound the same, and while it may in concept sound like something cool, it can compromise the integrity of the composition which made an entire generation want to try their lungs at the sax. Similarly, a serious suggestion for mechanical alterations must consider all vantages. It was for this reason that Tri was the most stripped down Monster Hunter since MH1, unsound mechanics made the game challenging because of an enormous grind to get "the best stuff", not because the creatures were difficult to predict, approach or cope with, not because the player had to figure out what stuff was best FOR THEM. In the world of model building, excess parts and packaging are referred to as "kibble" (literally meaning "ground into small portions), because it has small value on the full construct. Much the same, a game's mechanical integrity must constantly purge kibble, even if we dig and are attached to an idea. Tri was triumphant BECAUSE it was a purging of kibble concepts the developers were attached to. -Wynn Well, naturally, it's unjustifiably and irrefutably just as much of an opinion that another elemental modifier would over-complicate the game with something which is simply another factor in a very important mechanic. A good example would be fighting Rathian in Ludroth armor is generally a bad idea, but Uragaan and Rathian can both be fought in Qurupeco armor comfortably (so long as your Quru set is appropriate to the version you fight, offline Quru is applicable to offline Leno, but online low rank might not cut it with Leno due to lacking DEF, until Qurupeco+). The other thing being that the effect can already be obtained via Thunder, granting that Thunder (like Ice) is only less obscure than Dragon. To me the obvious answer would be to make Thunder, Ice and (possibly) Dragon, obtainable earlier on. It still makes little sense to me why Ice and Water are different elements, but they have more merit of difference than thunder and wind. The concept of having elemental pairs also bugs me because it creates an "inferior", or easier to obtain of a similar effect which can handicap the game's versatility. For example, the 3 Dragon-based Greatswords (Alatreon Revolution and the Anguishes) are obtained only by dispatching very high ranked monsters, but their existence doesn't overlap the existing Fire Greatswords (Crimsonwall as well if you want to count awakenings). Each weapon functions in it's final form in an equal, but different manner which allows for the game to flex it's modularity. But ultimately my opinion to disagree is as subjective as the concept is to agree with (just a different point of view to begin with), but certainly worthwhile to discuss in full. -Wynn Hey Wynn, can you try making your explainations a bit shorter lol. You usually have a good point but I don't like reading all that writing. -UhhJoeyL Oh wow! all three of my most rage inducing ideas in one thread!!!!! I'm gonna put this as simply as I can: (and for the record I like Orage...i just don't think it's Ideas match the mechanics for an actual monster hunter game) Wind element: Think about it's possible effects that dont include knockback- ALL USELESS! Consider your other point about MHU being illogical, not really, as chinese stickman correctly stated the weapons dont LITERALLY have ice/water/fire dripping off them its more forged into the blade/hammer/whatever, such as a superheated blade/deep freeze blade etc. Wind has no real bonus it could bestow. Look at it another way as well...you have a gravios, would something human sized be able to knock it back with wind? no! Windblight....just no...they already have that...its called defence down that you can get off most bugs, vespoid queen, akantor and a couple others... And whips? I dunno they just seem like the wrong type of weapon to incorporate into MH, when you look at other weapons you could see how they might bring down a monster, but whipping an akantor? it would be like whipping godzilla with a string of spagetti, I wish people would forget about these ideas! Rant over... Rathalos Samurai Zaka 02:36, January 6, 2011 (UTC) It's been stated above already that wind element is just an element. no knock back or defence down or anything on a monster or hunter. also it doesnt have to be incorporated into every flap-of-a wing that the monster does, it would probably be represented as a breath attack. blights are a new mechanic brought into tri that i dont like in the first place, they are neither ailments nor elements so I'LL leave that as is. and in defence of the whip you cant bring down any large monsters with bows either yet its done. the whip will probably be reinforced with stuff harder than leather. im just some random guy who doesnt understand why these things cant be brought into the game, there really isnt a reason to leave them out other than people not liking change. random guy